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masterbully
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Joined: 07 Aug 2009
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Location: Trois-Rivières, Quebec
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 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| Cold Country wrote: | Penn hip can be done at any time after 4 mos. Studies show that is the earliest a dog can be Ph'd and the test be used as an accurate indicator. OFA will also pre lim at this same age but prefers you do it after two years of age.
Some people think PH and OFA are tests to exclude dogs from a breeding program. I look at it more as a tool to help me make informed decisions and make better breeding choices. |
I think the prelim for OFA is 7 months old. And you're right Troy, testing hips just tell the breeder what he is working with.
I just want to add that HD must be more important to look at than a cow hocked dog. I know it's ugly lol, but a dog with hip dysplasia can ruin a family, if he has a cow hocked rear, and is a pet in a pet home, who cares? He can run, and walk, and jump. Must be sad for a family to put its lovely pet down because of HD at 3 years old or so 9and even sometimes at 7 months  ).
This is why I think it should be more important for breeders to check hips. Cow hocked is a fault, HD is a bad genetic desease. The dog will suffer from it.
Maybe I'm wrong tho....JM2C...Vero 
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Frei
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Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Plumas Lake Ca.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:24 pm Post subject: Sorry Guys |
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Sorry I don't get that much time to look on here.
I think all things are a factor when breeding. I look at everything. I was just saying that when buying a dog please consider asking about the hips before you buy.
The Guarantee
What good is the guarantee if you have to fight the person to get a replacement. Or wait years for a replacement or pay endless shipping.
I believe most breeders will replace the dog or puppy. I say MOST
Look at the time you will spend
A good friend told me it cost just as much to feed a shit dog as it does a Champion.
We all are starting to produce some awesome dogs now its time to start stepping it up and start making them even better.
I believe in breeding you can use a lot of these dogs as TOOLS and that is what makes you a better breeder.
I didn't start this post to make anybody made but to make people "THINK" when buying a dog.
I wish everybody a good experience with there NEW AMERICAN BULLDOG
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bigironmike
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Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Cold Country wrote: | | Also, nobody ever hurt the breed by health checking. Many have hurt the breed by NOT health checking. |
Excellent statement.
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Diesel1!
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Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 17
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not a breeder but i am a fan of the American Bulldog. Personally i wouldn't even bother with a breeder whom did not test for Hips and Elbows or any other health testing. I think it is unfair to the buyer to charge as much as some breeders do for dogs who may or may not have issues later on. Granted i know that can happen no matter what but at least i know what to possibly expect if the tests are ran.
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New Blood Kennels
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Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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Location: Jacksonville, N.C.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Diesel1! wrote: | | I'm not a breeder but i am a fan of the American Bulldog. Personally i wouldn't even bother with a breeder whom did not test for Hips and Elbows or any other health testing. I think it is unfair to the buyer to charge as much as some breeders do for dogs who may or may not have issues later on. Granted i know that can happen no matter what but at least i know what to possibly expect if the tests are ran. |
No one will put a gun to your head and force you to buy a dog from them. Its pretty fair I think. If you think a Bully dog with out health tests is worth it, buy it. If you think a Pit Bull looking American Bulldog is great because it has health checks, buy it. Everything is on the consumer.
For example when I get call, I dont get calls asking for hip checks. I get calls asking for a Bulldog.
If I like a dog and what its producing but the breeder doesnt health check but guarantees his stock to be healthy, I will buy a pup and check it out myself. It all on you. You will make the choice.
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redbull
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| New Blood Kennels wrote: |
No one will put a gun to your head and force you to buy a dog from them. Its pretty fair I think. If you think a Bully dog with out health tests is worth it, buy it. If you think a Pit Bull looking American Bulldog is great because it has health checks, buy it. Everything is on the consumer.
For example when I get call, I dont get calls asking for hip checks. I get calls asking for a Bulldog.
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I know why people who call don't ask for hip checks or health checks, it's because the majority of people out there buying pets don't really know any better about the issues that are in this breed..... and a lot of the bully breeders care more about what the dog looks like first and foremost (because looks = sales)
But why do you think it is that more standard/hybrid breeders actually care about what they're breeding? From what you are saying, I think you agree the majority of bully AB breeders don't really care to check anything or keep a log on much of anything.
Any speculations why? Besides having to work harder or maybe make less sales from having to wash out more dogs from a breeding program who don't or shouldn't make the cut?
Breedings standards should and can be just as high for all breeds, has nothing to do with what they look like...I've heard that same saying time and time again (people are looking for a bulldog) and imo it's just a cop-out to own/breed a cool looking dog by people who don't want to work a bit harder at it to include the health aspect, which is the most important imo.
Who really cares if a dog looks cool as hell, only if it were to die at two years of age or not be able to walk right, lives in pain, or dies during a heat spell...etc, etc
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Last edited by redbull on Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Diesel1!
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Joined: 04 Jan 2010
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Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:17 am Post subject: |
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I guess my main point that I was trying to come across is that if I am going to pay$1000, $1500 even $2500 for a pup I want to know what that I am getting a healthy pup that has less of a chance for genetic defects. I don't mean just hips and elbows.
I have to wonder what exactly what I am paying for if a breeder doesn't do health tests???
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New Blood Kennels
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Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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Location: Jacksonville, N.C.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| redbull wrote: | | New Blood Kennels wrote: |
No one will put a gun to your head and force you to buy a dog from them. Its pretty fair I think. If you think a Bully dog with out health tests is worth it, buy it. If you think a Pit Bull looking American Bulldog is great because it has health checks, buy it. Everything is on the consumer.
For example when I get call, I dont get calls asking for hip checks. I get calls asking for a Bulldog.
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But why do you think it is that more standard/hybrid breeders actually care about what they're breeding? From what you are saying, I think you agree the majority of bully AB breeders don't really care to check anything or keep a log on much of anything.
Any speculations why? Breedings standards should and can be just as high for all breeds, had nothing to do with what they look like...I've heard that same saying time and time again and imo it's just a cop-out to own/breed a cool looking dog by people who don't want to work a bit harder at it to include the health aspect, which is the most important imo. |
Ive noticed the dogs with the tighter hips are always smaller and not as bully. I didnt say bully breeders dont care about hips. The bigger the dog the more chance of it having bad hips. Its not a cop out, Its fact. The bigger the breed the more chance of bad hips. If you are dealing with a small breed like a chihuahua you have less chance of having a dog with bad hips.
No one is forced to buy a dog with out health checks. I had a thread about this. I came to the conclusion if the registry doesnt care why should I. Testing a few dogs is not going to help, BOTTOM LINE ! When the registries make hips a mandatory thing to have for all dogs going to be bred I will do it. Im not against hip checking, Im just realistic. Its just like Iraq and afganistan, we are not changing anything by converting a few ppl. If I had the time I would create a registry that only registered dogs that were hip checked and had no djd.
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redbull
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:26 am Post subject: |
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The chances of having bad hips are greater sure. That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying in this breed, hardly anyone cares to check anything health wise in general. There are no active programs to reduce and eliminate certain health conditions. Because they are more concerned about producing a dog they think looks cool, at any costs, so it seems. People think if they breed 'this' line to 'that' line, then their chances of getting a certain issue is less, which is true, but the issues will still pop up. Scatter breeding is def not a solution.
Their solution is just to replace the dog if it turns out to have issues, but what about all the time and effort that was put into the dog? Nothing can replace this. My point is that people should be health testing far more in general. The bully-ab breed is not what I would call a very great one where it comes to breeding standards and practices.
I gotta really give props to the Europeans in this game though, they seem to really care about what they are breeding and feeding, and the future of the breed. Seems like a lot of US breeders don't really care. Not saying all, but not a whole lot.
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New Blood Kennels
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Location: Jacksonville, N.C.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| redbull wrote: | The chances of having bad hips are greater sure. That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying in this breed, hardly anyone cares to check anything health wise in general. There are no active programs to reduce and eliminate certain health conditions. Because they are more concerned about producing a dog they think looks cool, at any costs, so it seems. People think if they breed 'this' line to 'that' line, then their chances of getting a certain issue is less, which is true, but the issues will still line up. Scatter breeding is def not a solution.
Their solution is just to replace the dog if it turns out to have issues, but what about all the time and effort that was put into the dog? Nothing can replace this. My point is that people should be health testing far more in general. The bully-ab breed is not what I would call a very great one where it comes to breeding standards and practices. |
You can penn hip a dog at 16 weeks. Its all on the registries. The registries is where change begins. We continue to support them thats why they keep doing what they want. If I win the lottery and I could stay at home I would start my own elite registry.
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New Blood Kennels
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| Cold Country wrote: | | I think that checking hips should be mandatory. I wish the US had more stringent requirements like Germany for breeding dogs. The type of breeding ethics here are a JOKE!! |
You always say how much you care about the breed, Why dont you start an Elite registry? Instead of investing your time in traveling and showing, invest your energy in starting a registry. Ill be the first one to sign up. We can call it the Elite American Bulldog Registry. You can put on shows too. We just have to get all of the hip testing kennels to boycott the other registries shows and registries.
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BROOKLYN VIC
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Joined: 03 Aug 2007
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Location: brooklyn new york
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:13 am Post subject: hips |
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let me say this nicely-----those who do not hip test there dogs should be selling them as pets and make sure they are not bred so the cycle of continuesly breeding unhealthy dogs may 1 day come to an end.me and chach cold country will never get along for certain personal reasons or unless he ever realizes that he talks down to people with no respect like they are friends of his he is playing with. but i respect his dedication to this breed i respect his ethics and integrity on breeding and if america was like germany it would be a breeders nightmare over here it would weed out 75 percent of the shitty breeders. chach you would love the complete rottweiler. please check vr-rottweilers.com 30 yr veteran has 3-4 german imports over 100k apiece serious working titled studs gets 4-6k per puppy but he will not ever breed a shitty dog or bitch never under 2 yrs of age and only stud his dogs out to bitches of merit.
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redbull
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: hips |
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| BROOKLYN VIC wrote: | | let me say this nicely-----those who do not hip test there dogs should be selling them as pets and make sure they are not bred so the cycle of continuesly breeding unhealthy dogs may 1 day come to an end.me and chach cold country will never get along for certain personal reasons or unless he ever realizes that he talks down to people with no respect like they are friends of his he is playing with. but i respect his dedication to this breed i respect his ethics and integrity on breeding and if america was like germany it would be a breeders nightmare over here it would weed out 75 percent of the shitty breeders. chach you would love the complete rottweiler. please check vr-rottweilers.com 30 yr veteran has 3-4 german imports over 100k apiece serious working titled studs gets 4-6k per puppy but he will not ever breed a shitty dog or bitch never under 2 yrs of age and only stud his dogs out to bitches of merit. |
Yes exactly. All it takes is time and dedication to lower the percentage of f'd up dogs. Just because larger breeds are more prone to bad hips, makes it no excuse to say "do you want a real bulldog or not" and then speak about pitbull looking dogs as being the only dogs who have tight hips. This is complete BS and a cop-out. Bully dogs can have tight hips too. Fact. Yes larger breeds are more prone, but it is no excuse to weed out and work at trying to eliminate the problems. It is not a weight or size related issue. Weight and size do not CAUSE these problems. They just exist in bulldogs and molossars in general, in which case it is 100% needed to be more diligent and strict about breeding practices, if people care about the future of the breed, or about dogs in general, then they would take the time to try to eliminate some of the larger issues in this breed.
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redbull
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| New Blood Kennels wrote: |
You can penn hip a dog at 16 weeks. Its all on the registries. The registries is where change begins. We continue to support them thats why they keep doing what they want. If I win the lottery and I could stay at home I would start my own elite registry. |
Yes I hear ya, it all begins in our back yards first. That's what we can all definitely control. Registries need to start co-operating as much as possible as well.
It's really really hard for me to take the AB world all that seriously when I see how bad the breeding practices are throughout it. It is definitely a buyer-beware world.
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BROOKLYN VIC
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Location: brooklyn new york
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:12 pm Post subject: BREEDING |
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redbull you know it is only a fantasy to even think any registries would consider only hip checked dogs they make money on volume like the largest registry in the us the A.K.C. they will allow you to register a litter at 8 months of age so its ok to breed a 6 month old in there eyes. and they put on the biggest of dog shows and they are a non - profit foundation how about that. are they helping dogs or just themselves.
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